Comments on: CyberNotes: Vista Does Time Machine… Better http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/ Technology News Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:58:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Anonymous http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-143444 Anonymous Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:32:32 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-143444 "Microsoft still designs for the engineer in all of us" Well, I'm a researcher with a PhD in computer engineering and I guess I'm one of the minority of engineers that don't like fighting with our computers (aka troubleshooting) or leaving our work at the mercy of viruses and spyware. And yes, even if you have all the latest tools and are careful which sites you visit and what attachments you open, it CAN happen! Almost all computer researchers and professionals I know either use MacOS or Linux and only have windows for compatibility reasons or some very specific programs. Granted, support for businesses and organizations is limited by apple and most linux distros and windows will still be the dominant OS in offices for quite some time. But MS certainly doesn't design for the engineer! They don't even design for the poor admins! They design for the managers ordering equipment and probably some lame PC hobbyist that feels proud to have wasted a couple of hours fixing the latest quirk of their computer. “Microsoft still designs for the engineer in all of us”

Well, I’m a researcher with a PhD in computer engineering and I guess I’m one of the minority of engineers that don’t like fighting with our computers (aka troubleshooting) or leaving our work at the mercy of viruses and spyware. And yes, even if you have all the latest tools and are careful which sites you visit and what attachments you open, it CAN happen!

Almost all computer researchers and professionals I know either use MacOS or Linux and only have windows for compatibility reasons or some very specific programs. Granted, support for businesses and organizations is limited by apple and most linux distros and windows will still be the dominant OS in offices for quite some time.

But MS certainly doesn’t design for the engineer! They don’t even design for the poor admins! They design for the managers ordering equipment and probably some lame PC hobbyist that feels proud to have wasted a couple of hours fixing the latest quirk of their computer.

]]> By: Jim http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-142788 Jim Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:10:49 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-142788 Great pointer. I think if MS had integrated previous versions into every file dialog/file manager and advertised it, they'd have reached more people. Be honest, though, for your typical computer challenged pleb (aka typical Mac customer) they can only grasp things they are shown..and let's face it: Mac is king of making things dumbed down enough to understand. Who can't figure out scrolling through historic pictures of history with a timeline on the side. Microsoft could learn a LOT from the designers at Mac. Microsoft still designs for the engineer in all of us...and Mac still designs for the artist. Unfortunately for Microsoft, "new" pc users (young AND old) almost always relate better to artists than engineers. It's a mindset change. Great pointer. I think if MS had integrated previous versions into every file dialog/file manager and advertised it, they’d have reached more people. Be honest, though, for your typical computer challenged pleb (aka typical Mac customer) they can only grasp things they are shown..and let’s face it: Mac is king of making things dumbed down enough to understand. Who can’t figure out scrolling through historic pictures of history with a timeline on the side. Microsoft could learn a LOT from the designers at Mac.

Microsoft still designs for the engineer in all of us…and Mac still designs for the artist. Unfortunately for Microsoft, “new” pc users (young AND old) almost always relate better to artists than engineers. It’s a mindset change.

]]> By: netster007x http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-130000 netster007x Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:17:04 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-130000 That'd b cool if it was in a version of Vista a standard user would have, like Home Premium. Sounds like a good feature, but isn't worth the OS cost difference. That’d b cool if it was in a version of Vista a standard user would have, like Home Premium. Sounds like a good feature, but isn’t worth the OS cost difference.

]]> By: Ryan http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129916 Ryan Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:08:02 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129916 [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-129890" rel="nofollow">OldManDeath wrote:</a><blockquote>The other comment I have is that the Previous Versions in Vista appears to only work on the drive that Vista is installed on and not other drives in the computer. Unless there is a manual way to enable it on other drives.</blockquote>[/div] You'll have to go into the system settings and enable system restore for each of the drives for it to work. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-129902" rel="nofollow">Anonymous wrote:</a><blockquote>just for the heads up, linux has its own time machine called FlyBack. soon it will have a fancy interface but so far it works like a charm. I tried it on Ubuntu.</blockquote>[/div] Huh, that didn't take long at all. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-129899" rel="nofollow">Ethan wrote:</a><blockquote>There’s a commercial app for Windows and Mac called “Versomatic” that tracks every change made to every files on a HDD and it is similar to Time Machine in that you can select where you want to back up..same HDD or external and set it and forget it, no manual backups AND the backups are accessible from the right-click/context menu. But it doesn’t save disk space like Vista’s Shadow Copy does.</blockquote>[/div] I used to use a tool called GoBack that did the same kind of thing. I stopped using it because it's so heavy on processor and disk usage. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-129892" rel="nofollow">leland wrote:</a><blockquote>You know this would work better with a server to host the shadow copies, which is probably why the feature is available in the versions of Vista aimed at business use.</blockquote>[/div] That would be nice for businesses, but overall I like the fact that I don't have to setup another computer or hard drive to do the dirty work. It's just always doing its thing. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-129880" rel="nofollow">Michael Dobrofsky wrote:</a><blockquote>In my opinion, putting these features head to head isn’t a fair comparison seeing that the feature is limited to half the available versions of Vista. It’s like you’re saying, “Hey! Vista beats Apple in this feature”. But can you show me it on my Vista version? Ummmmmm, catch my drift? ;)</blockquote>[/div] I see what you're saying, but it is a feature that is still included with half the versions of Vista. OldManDeath wrote:
The other comment I have is that the Previous Versions in Vista appears to only work on the drive that Vista is installed on and not other drives in the computer. Unless there is a manual way to enable it on other drives.

You’ll have to go into the system settings and enable system restore for each of the drives for it to work.

Anonymous wrote:
just for the heads up, linux has its own time machine called FlyBack.

soon it will have a fancy interface but so far it works like a charm. I tried it on Ubuntu.

Huh, that didn’t take long at all.

Ethan wrote:
There’s a commercial app for Windows and Mac called “Versomatic” that tracks every change made to every files on a HDD and it is similar to Time Machine in that you can select where you want to back up..same HDD or external and set it and forget it, no manual backups AND the backups are accessible from the right-click/context menu. But it doesn’t save disk space like Vista’s Shadow Copy does.

I used to use a tool called GoBack that did the same kind of thing. I stopped using it because it’s so heavy on processor and disk usage.

leland wrote:
You know this would work better with a server to host the shadow copies, which is probably why the feature is available in the versions of Vista aimed at business use.

That would be nice for businesses, but overall I like the fact that I don’t have to setup another computer or hard drive to do the dirty work. It’s just always doing its thing.

Michael Dobrofsky wrote:
In my opinion, putting these features head to head isn’t a fair comparison seeing that the feature is limited to half the available versions of Vista. It’s like you’re saying, “Hey! Vista beats Apple in this feature”. But can you show me it on my Vista version? Ummmmmm, catch my drift? ;)

I see what you’re saying, but it is a feature that is still included with half the versions of Vista.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129902 Anonymous Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:16:04 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129902 just for the heads up, linux has its own time machine called FlyBack. soon it will have a fancy interface but so far it works like a charm. I tried it on Ubuntu. just for the heads up, linux has its own time machine called FlyBack.

soon it will have a fancy interface but so far it works like a charm. I tried it on Ubuntu.

]]> By: Ethan http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129899 Ethan Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:35:52 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129899 There's a commercial app for Windows and Mac called "Versomatic" that tracks every change made to every files on a HDD and it is similar to Time Machine in that you can select where you want to back up..same HDD or external and set it and forget it, no manual backups AND the backups are accessible from the right-click/context menu. But it doesn't save disk space like Vista's Shadow Copy does. There’s a commercial app for Windows and Mac called “Versomatic” that tracks every change made to every files on a HDD and it is similar to Time Machine in that you can select where you want to back up..same HDD or external and set it and forget it, no manual backups AND the backups are accessible from the right-click/context menu. But it doesn’t save disk space like Vista’s Shadow Copy does.

]]> By: leland http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129892 leland Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:04:48 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129892 You know this would work better with a server to host the shadow copies, which is probably why the feature is available in the versions of Vista aimed at business use. Also, for home users Windows Home Server has some pretty nice features for keeping backups and works with all sorts of hard drive configurations. But of course that requires another computer, but now days who does not have an older machine floating around that could be used as a home server. In that case I think it would be as good as or better than Time machine, just in a different way. You know this would work better with a server to host the shadow copies, which is probably why the feature is available in the versions of Vista aimed at business use.

Also, for home users Windows Home Server has some pretty nice features for keeping backups and works with all sorts of hard drive configurations. But of course that requires another computer, but now days who does not have an older machine floating around that could be used as a home server. In that case I think it would be as good as or better than Time machine, just in a different way.

]]> By: Lashiec http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129891 Lashiec Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:44:15 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129891 Not to mention that the theory behind backing up files is to be able to recover from a disaster like a hard crash. If you back them up to the same hard drive you have the master copies (to call them something), and it goes boom, you'll end up with nothing! I guess Previous Versions is usable with an external hard drive, otherwise it's much better to use a separate backup utility. Maybe the same Time Machine if you have a Mac ;) Not to mention that the theory behind backing up files is to be able to recover from a disaster like a hard crash. If you back them up to the same hard drive you have the master copies (to call them something), and it goes boom, you’ll end up with nothing!

I guess Previous Versions is usable with an external hard drive, otherwise it’s much better to use a separate backup utility. Maybe the same Time Machine if you have a Mac ;)

]]> By: OldManDeath http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129890 OldManDeath Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:41:58 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129890 The only thing I have to say here about the MAC feature is that in the MAC ad, Apple is saying they are the only ones that have that type feature. To me that is blatant outright lying. The other comment I have is that the Previous Versions in Vista appears to only work on the drive that Vista is installed on and not other drives in the computer. Unless there is a manual way to enable it on other drives. The only thing I have to say here about the MAC feature is that in the MAC ad, Apple is saying they are the only ones that have that type feature. To me that is blatant outright lying.

The other comment I have is that the Previous Versions in Vista appears to only work on the drive that Vista is installed on and not other drives in the computer. Unless there is a manual way to enable it on other drives.

]]> By: MarkH http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129888 MarkH Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:06:39 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129888 Aditya[div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-129884" rel="nofollow">Aditya wrote:</a><blockquote>...We’ve had system restore, which is a bare-bones version of a bare-bones Previous versions, with people having to create restore points manually, and it’s system-wide, not file specific.</blockquote>[/div] Not a correct comparison. System Restore does not work on user files, only system files and settings. If you accidently delete a Word document, you cannot do a System Restore to bring it back. But I do agree with your main issue. Apple does beat MS on this issue, because it is useful to everyone. Even though Vista technically has it beat with Previous Versions and Backup and Restore, it should be available on all versions. Aditya
Aditya wrote:
…We’ve had system restore, which is a bare-bones version of a bare-bones Previous versions, with people having to create restore points manually, and it’s system-wide, not file specific.

Not a correct comparison. System Restore does not work on user files, only system files and settings. If you accidently delete a Word document, you cannot do a System Restore to bring it back.

But I do agree with your main issue. Apple does beat MS on this issue, because it is useful to everyone. Even though Vista technically has it beat with Previous Versions and Backup and Restore, it should be available on all versions.

]]> By: Aditya http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129884 Aditya Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:44:37 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129884 The issue here is not what feature there is, or isn't. We've had system restore, which is a bare-bones version of a bare-bones Previous versions, with people having to create restore points manually, and it's system-wide, not file specific. The issue here is that you need to make a feature usable by the common user to make it effective. Time Machine does that. It might not be 'revolutionary', but it reaches out to the common person ... and in that way, it gets the job done. The very fact that you're writing a whole article showing what 'Previous versions' is shows where it has failed as a feature. This is of course not taking away the usefulness. The issue here is not what feature there is, or isn’t. We’ve had system restore, which is a bare-bones version of a bare-bones Previous versions, with people having to create restore points manually, and it’s system-wide, not file specific.

The issue here is that you need to make a feature usable by the common user to make it effective. Time Machine does that. It might not be ‘revolutionary’, but it reaches out to the common person … and in that way, it gets the job done.

The very fact that you’re writing a whole article showing what ‘Previous versions’ is shows where it has failed as a feature. This is of course not taking away the usefulness.

]]> By: CoryC http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129883 CoryC Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:43:56 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129883 That's the problem with Microsoft...depending on which version of Windows I have, I may have "Previous Versions". Also, what I can do with "Back up and Restore" depends on which version of Vista I have. Microsoft really went down the wrong path with all the various version of Vista. That’s the problem with Microsoft…depending on which version of Windows I have, I may have “Previous Versions”. Also, what I can do with “Back up and Restore” depends on which version of Vista I have.

Microsoft really went down the wrong path with all the various version of Vista.

]]> By: Michael Dobrofsky http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129880 Michael Dobrofsky Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:16:59 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/21/cybernotes-vista-does-time-machine-better/#comment-129880 In my opinion, putting these features head to head isn't a fair comparison seeing that the feature is limited to half the available versions of Vista. It's like you're saying, "Hey! Vista beats Apple in this feature". But can you show me it on my Vista version? Ummmmmm, catch my drift? ;) In my opinion, putting these features head to head isn’t a fair comparison seeing that the feature is limited to half the available versions of Vista. It’s like you’re saying, “Hey! Vista beats Apple in this feature”. But can you show me it on my Vista version? Ummmmmm, catch my drift? ;)

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