Comments on: Open Computer Preinstalls Leopard, Calls Apple a Monopoly http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/ Technology News Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:58:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: leland http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-136256 leland Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:03:15 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-136256 Even though most of the ATI and Nvidia drivers are universal these days on Windows I'm not sure about that on a Mac. If there were to be a stability issue I would think the graphics driver would be a likely cause. However if it works and the driver works with both cards it could be quite interesting. As for taking full advantage, it would really depend on the graphics driver and that is a big wild card. Still if you have the money to spend and don't mind experimenting with what may end up a Windows or Linux box if Mac OS X does not work right then it might be a worthwhile experiment. Better yet if they would lend one to a press writer it would be good exposure and at the same time alleviate a lot of anxiety one might have in buying one of these. Even though most of the ATI and Nvidia drivers are universal these days on Windows I’m not sure about that on a Mac. If there were to be a stability issue I would think the graphics driver would be a likely cause. However if it works and the driver works with both cards it could be quite interesting. As for taking full advantage, it would really depend on the graphics driver and that is a big wild card. Still if you have the money to spend and don’t mind experimenting with what may end up a Windows or Linux box if Mac OS X does not work right then it might be a worthwhile experiment. Better yet if they would lend one to a press writer it would be good exposure and at the same time alleviate a lot of anxiety one might have in buying one of these.

]]> By: Ryan http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-136215 Ryan Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:52:45 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-136215 [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-136193" rel="nofollow">leland wrote:</a><blockquote>What I would be curious about is what happens if you upgrade to a better graphics card like the 9800GTX or 3870 instead of the 8800GT or 2600XT that Apple uses?</blockquote>[/div] I'm equally curious about that. I'm guessing that it would work, but maybe the system wouldn't take full advantage of the advanced graphics card? leland wrote:
What I would be curious about is what happens if you upgrade to a better graphics card like the 9800GTX or 3870 instead of the 8800GT or 2600XT that Apple uses?

I’m equally curious about that. I’m guessing that it would work, but maybe the system wouldn’t take full advantage of the advanced graphics card?

]]> By: leland http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-136193 leland Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:02:18 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-136193 I think as long as the hardware meets Apple's specs I would expect a comparable user experience with clone hardware. Apple hardware is not really anything special, they just standardize one 1 or 2 hardware platforms at a time so it is easy to support with little need to support every possible configuration of PC the way Microsoft does. What I would be curious about is what happens if you upgrade to a better graphics card like the 9800GTX or 3870 instead of the 8800GT or 2600XT that Apple uses? Having a clone with upgraded graphics cards might be very useful for graphics professionals. Besides I have always found Apples hardware a bit too expensive for my tastes. Selling them with Linux but also with the possibility to install Apple OS X on your own if you buy it separately would probably be a better way to keep Apple legal away. I think as long as the hardware meets Apple’s specs I would expect a comparable user experience with clone hardware. Apple hardware is not really anything special, they just standardize one 1 or 2 hardware platforms at a time so it is easy to support with little need to support every possible configuration of PC the way Microsoft does. What I would be curious about is what happens if you upgrade to a better graphics card like the 9800GTX or 3870 instead of the 8800GT or 2600XT that Apple uses? Having a clone with upgraded graphics cards might be very useful for graphics professionals. Besides I have always found Apples hardware a bit too expensive for my tastes. Selling them with Linux but also with the possibility to install Apple OS X on your own if you buy it separately would probably be a better way to keep Apple legal away.

]]> By: n_sani_t http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135814 n_sani_t Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:12:42 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135814 [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-135807" rel="nofollow">Pacika wrote:</a><blockquote>Does sony have a monopoly because you can’t run the PS3 operating system on other hardware? The answer is no, because you buy the whole package, I guess we’d call that an “consumer product” not an OS. Apple is doing the same thing, they sell an apple computer product. Just because the non-apple pc market is focused on individual hardware kits and oses doesn’t make Apple an monopoly. If you’re not willing to pay apple prices then you don’t buy apple computers, it’s like anything else. Even though of course everyone technical would like to have a go at it. Just wanting it doesn’t make it reality though. That’s what I think anyway.</blockquote>[/div] if they are putting out a consumer product like the sony ps3, then have their commercials compare themselves to the ps3. not microsoft. what makes them so special that if someone calls bs on them for being a monopolizing os or computer manufacturer or whatever they can say "hey, we're not an os, we're a consumer electronics company" or "hey, we're not a consumer electronics company, we're a software and os creating company". compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges....but don't throw me a banana on monday and call it an apple and on tuesday an orange. Pacika wrote:
Does sony have a monopoly because you can’t run the PS3 operating system on other hardware? The answer is no, because you buy the whole package, I guess we’d call that an “consumer product” not an OS. Apple is doing the same thing, they sell an apple computer product. Just because the non-apple pc market is focused on individual hardware kits and oses doesn’t make Apple an monopoly. If you’re not willing to pay apple prices then you don’t buy apple computers, it’s like anything else. Even though of course everyone technical would like to have a go at it. Just wanting it doesn’t make it reality though. That’s what I think anyway.

if they are putting out a consumer product like the sony ps3, then have their commercials compare themselves to the ps3. not microsoft. what makes them so special that if someone calls bs on them for being a monopolizing os or computer manufacturer or whatever they can say “hey, we’re not an os, we’re a consumer electronics company” or “hey, we’re not a consumer electronics company, we’re a software and os creating company”. compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges….but don’t throw me a banana on monday and call it an apple and on tuesday an orange.

]]> By: Pacika http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135807 Pacika Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:26:29 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135807 Does sony have a monopoly because you can't run the PS3 operating system on other hardware? The answer is no, because you buy the whole package, I guess we'd call that an "consumer product" not an OS. Apple is doing the same thing, they sell an apple computer product. Just because the non-apple pc market is focused on individual hardware kits and oses doesn't make Apple an monopoly. If you're not willing to pay apple prices then you don't buy apple computers, it's like anything else. Even though of course everyone technical would like to have a go at it. Just wanting it doesn't make it reality though. That's what I think anyway. Does sony have a monopoly because you can’t run the PS3 operating system on other hardware? The answer is no, because you buy the whole package, I guess we’d call that an “consumer product” not an OS. Apple is doing the same thing, they sell an apple computer product. Just because the non-apple pc market is focused on individual hardware kits and oses doesn’t make Apple an monopoly. If you’re not willing to pay apple prices then you don’t buy apple computers, it’s like anything else. Even though of course everyone technical would like to have a go at it. Just wanting it doesn’t make it reality though. That’s what I think anyway.

]]> By: Michael Dobrofsky http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135802 Michael Dobrofsky Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:21:02 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135802 Lawyers love the world we live in... Lawyers love the world we live in…

]]> By: Ryan http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135792 Ryan Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:32:23 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135792 [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-135774" rel="nofollow">Mohan wrote:</a><blockquote>If Psystar proves that OS X runs on their machines, I am so there. I would love to have a Apple machines but I am not willing to play outrageous price.</blockquote>[/div] I think a lot of people feel the same way. I'm still a bit of a skeptic myself though, and I would love to hear a review from someone that actually receives one of these. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-135776" rel="nofollow">leland wrote:</a><blockquote>I remember a time before Steve Jobs came back to Apple when they were allowing registered third parties to sell Mac Clones. It was great. However this will most likely get squashed by Apple’s legal department for now. However it is likely to show the interestest there is in clones which may ultimately bring about some deals for third parties to legally bring out Mac clones yet again. Although Apple has been pretty vocal about not allowing this to happen so it will be interesting to see what happens in the long run.</blockquote>[/div] What I'm left wondering is whether these clones could successfully exist as long as they don't preinstall OS X for the user. What if the user purchased the machine as "OS X compatible" and then went to the store to buy their own copy? Sure they would still be breaking the license, but would they have a flawless experience? [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-135777" rel="nofollow">n_sani_t wrote:</a><blockquote>i think apple’s pretty damned good at twisting things so that they don’t smell quite as bad as they really are.</blockquote>[/div] Apple can definitely twist a lot of stuff to make it sound wonderful. I whole heartily agree with that, but then again almost every company tries to do that. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-135780" rel="nofollow">Me wrote:</a><blockquote>Short answer to “are those comparisons really accurate?” is YES! The only way they could get away with this is to not sell the OS upgrades. If they are selling the OS as part of the machine, i.e. the OS of PS3 or Xbox 360, then they would be free to lock the OS to the machine. They are selling both products together and separate, which violates this.</blockquote>[/div] So if Apple decided not to sell it separately then it would be okay? What if they offered the upgrade as a download much like a firmware update, and charged for it like they did for the recent iPod Touch update? I don't think that's really any different. [div id=commentquote]<a href="#comment-135783" rel="nofollow">Inferno_str1ke wrote:</a><blockquote>I can guarantee it won’t be nearly as stable on PC hardware, especially if you upgrade the thing or add other devices.</blockquote>[/div] That's one of the reasons that I can't wait for real reviews on this computer to start surfacing. I wonder just how good it is. Mohan wrote:
If Psystar proves that OS X runs on their machines, I am so there. I would love to have a Apple machines but I am not willing to play outrageous price.

I think a lot of people feel the same way. I’m still a bit of a skeptic myself though, and I would love to hear a review from someone that actually receives one of these.

leland wrote:
I remember a time before Steve Jobs came back to Apple when they were allowing registered third parties to sell Mac Clones. It was great. However this will most likely get squashed by Apple’s legal department for now. However it is likely to show the interestest there is in clones which may ultimately bring about some deals for third parties to legally bring out Mac clones yet again. Although Apple has been pretty vocal about not allowing this to happen so it will be interesting to see what happens in the long run.

What I’m left wondering is whether these clones could successfully exist as long as they don’t preinstall OS X for the user. What if the user purchased the machine as “OS X compatible” and then went to the store to buy their own copy? Sure they would still be breaking the license, but would they have a flawless experience?

n_sani_t wrote:
i think apple’s pretty damned good at twisting things so that they don’t smell quite as bad as they really are.

Apple can definitely twist a lot of stuff to make it sound wonderful. I whole heartily agree with that, but then again almost every company tries to do that.

Me wrote:
Short answer to “are those comparisons really accurate?” is YES! The only way they could get away with this is to not sell the OS upgrades. If they are selling the OS as part of the machine, i.e. the OS of PS3 or Xbox 360, then they would be free to lock the OS to the machine. They are selling both products together and separate, which violates this.

So if Apple decided not to sell it separately then it would be okay? What if they offered the upgrade as a download much like a firmware update, and charged for it like they did for the recent iPod Touch update? I don’t think that’s really any different.

Inferno_str1ke wrote:
I can guarantee it won’t be nearly as stable on PC hardware, especially if you upgrade the thing or add other devices.

That’s one of the reasons that I can’t wait for real reviews on this computer to start surfacing. I wonder just how good it is.

]]> By: Amak http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135786 Amak Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:11:20 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135786 With M$ being sued for their "monopoly" it's about time Apple faces the same pressure. Wonder how all this will play out. With M$ being sued for their “monopoly” it’s about time Apple faces the same pressure. Wonder how all this will play out.

]]> By: Inferno_str1ke http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135783 Inferno_str1ke Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:54:53 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135783 Maybe this will finally make people realise that the only reason OSX is any good is because its meant to run on a single hardware config - I can guarantee it won't be nearly as stable on PC hardware, especially if you upgrade the thing or add other devices. Maybe if that happens Apple can stop playing the cool card and admit that what Microsoft tries to do is damned hard. Maybe this will finally make people realise that the only reason OSX is any good is because its meant to run on a single hardware config - I can guarantee it won’t be nearly as stable on PC hardware, especially if you upgrade the thing or add other devices. Maybe if that happens Apple can stop playing the cool card and admit that what Microsoft tries to do is damned hard.

]]> By: Famf http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135782 Famf Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:29:28 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135782 I think it's great that someone is coming out and accusing Apple of being a monopoly. I'm not too fond of many of their products but I always found it strange that you couldn't install their OS on other PCs. I think it’s great that someone is coming out and accusing Apple of being a monopoly. I’m not too fond of many of their products but I always found it strange that you couldn’t install their OS on other PCs.

]]> By: Me http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135780 Me Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:01:17 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135780 Short answer to "are those comparisons really accurate?" is YES! The only way they could get away with this is to not sell the OS upgrades. If they are selling the OS as part of the machine, i.e. the OS of PS3 or Xbox 360, then they would be free to lock the OS to the machine. They are selling both products together and separate, which violates this. Also, they should be sued about 10 times over for iLife because it claims to have more stuff in it than Windows comes with, and Windows is sued for the stuff it has. Mac has had a monopoly for a long time and it needs to stop. Short answer to “are those comparisons really accurate?” is YES! The only way they could get away with this is to not sell the OS upgrades. If they are selling the OS as part of the machine, i.e. the OS of PS3 or Xbox 360, then they would be free to lock the OS to the machine. They are selling both products together and separate, which violates this. Also, they should be sued about 10 times over for iLife because it claims to have more stuff in it than Windows comes with, and Windows is sued for the stuff it has. Mac has had a monopoly for a long time and it needs to stop.

]]> By: n_sani_t http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135777 n_sani_t Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:10:41 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135777 all i have to say is 'bravo'!! while i'm not too fond of microsoft, i've always found it interesting that they keep getting sued for their business practices (ie bundling internet explorer with the os, etc) and yet apple can make their stuff as bundled as you can possibly get, software AND hardware but no one seems to complain. perhaps you can use the argument that they are selling consumer electronics with an os attached, or whatever, but then you'd better get rid of the now annoying, and false, "leopard is better than vista" advertising. after all, if they aren't the same thing, then they cannot compare....can they? or are they the same thing, and you can compare them? but then perhaps they're a monopoly after all? i think apple's pretty damned good at twisting things so that they don't smell quite as bad as they really are. i guess this is where i boost the linux figures eh? well, i run a computer with 2 separate drives...one's vista ultimate which i have no complaints about, and the other is kubuntu 8.04, hardy heron, beta...that i'm just learning...and i'm going to add opensuse 10.3 to that. i have vista on my wife's computer as well. i like vista, but there are a couple probs i have with creative labs. enough blah blah blah...hopefully i didn't ruin my point. :oops: all i have to say is ‘bravo’!! while i’m not too fond of microsoft, i’ve always found it interesting that they keep getting sued for their business practices (ie bundling internet explorer with the os, etc) and yet apple can make their stuff as bundled as you can possibly get, software AND hardware but no one seems to complain. perhaps you can use the argument that they are selling consumer electronics with an os attached, or whatever, but then you’d better get rid of the now annoying, and false, “leopard is better than vista” advertising. after all, if they aren’t the same thing, then they cannot compare….can they? or are they the same thing, and you can compare them? but then perhaps they’re a monopoly after all? i think apple’s pretty damned good at twisting things so that they don’t smell quite as bad as they really are.

i guess this is where i boost the linux figures eh? well, i run a computer with 2 separate drives…one’s vista ultimate which i have no complaints about, and the other is kubuntu 8.04, hardy heron, beta…that i’m just learning…and i’m going to add opensuse 10.3 to that. i have vista on my wife’s computer as well. i like vista, but there are a couple probs i have with creative labs.

enough blah blah blah…hopefully i didn’t ruin my point. :oops:

]]> By: leland http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135776 leland Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:04:20 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135776 I remember a time before Steve Jobs came back to Apple when they were allowing registered third parties to sell Mac Clones. It was great. However this will most likely get squashed by Apple's legal department for now. However it is likely to show the interestest there is in clones which may ultimately bring about some deals for third parties to legally bring out Mac clones yet again. Although Apple has been pretty vocal about not allowing this to happen so it will be interesting to see what happens in the long run. I remember a time before Steve Jobs came back to Apple when they were allowing registered third parties to sell Mac Clones. It was great. However this will most likely get squashed by Apple’s legal department for now. However it is likely to show the interestest there is in clones which may ultimately bring about some deals for third parties to legally bring out Mac clones yet again. Although Apple has been pretty vocal about not allowing this to happen so it will be interesting to see what happens in the long run.

]]> By: Mohan http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/15/open-computer-preinstalls-leopard-calls-apple-a-monopoly/#comment-135774 Mohan Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:45:06 +0000 http://cybernetnews.com/?p=12092#comment-135774 If Psystar proves that OS X runs on their machines, I am so there. I would love to have a Apple machines but I am not willing to play outrageous price. If Psystar proves that OS X runs on their machines, I am so there. I would love to have a Apple machines but I am not willing to play outrageous price.

]]>